It really comes down to responsibility. And ways of dodging it, ie. abortions.
Would you rather terminate a lump of flesh, or have a woman live her life struggling to care for a child she isn't ready for?
Nobody wins in your scenario; the mother plunges into an endless cycle of financial, physical and emotional difficulties, the child grows up neglected and disadvantaged, and the rest of the word cries "oh, great... just what we need - more people on the planet."
Nobody wins in your scenario; the mother plunges into an endless cycle of financial, physical and emotional difficulties, the child grows up neglected and disadvantaged, and the rest of the word cries "oh, great... just what we need - more people on the planet."
Natural processes. We're a dying species simply trying to stave off the inevitable and by killing as few as possible in the process. We have no idea how to live our lives and never will. Whether or not one expects a child when having sex they should be prepared for it. It really is murder regardless of who wants to argue what as far as whether or not a fetus is human or not. You're killing a future. If allowed to continue to grow and live then it will become a human. Simple as that.
As far as rape and incest are concerned I don't have an opinion on that. I will not venture one either since the odds of myself being put in such a situation are zero to nil.
As far as rape and incest are concerned I don't have an opinion on that. I will not venture one either since the odds of myself being put in such a situation are zero to nil.
100% pro-choice...
Here's one reason why... Every single day there are trillions of potential babies being killed...
Seriously... Every teenage guy kills about 300 million potential babies quite a few times a week.
Personally, I think birth control can be in the form of an 'abortion' (ex: morning after pill) or any other safe type anti-pregnant-becoming measures.
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#2: "Irresponsible women get abortions"... I think, in many circumstances, it would be irresponsible *not* to get an abortion. Ex: Take a teenager exchanging bodily fluids at someone's birthday party and getting pregnant. Not getting an abortion would most probably force them out of school, make them desperate for money, etc...
Also "because we're not promiscuous sluts" -> just because one sleeps with people doesn't categorize someone as a slut. It's rude to call someone a slut. Actually, frequent sex is healthy and encouraged.
And your last paragraph... I'm a male and support abortions. I wouldn't blame a woman if she got pregnant (because everybody knows, it takes two to tango). They're some who would, but they're also sensible, rational people too. Then again... Abortions cost money and guys are never in need of abortions... So I would support a guy who supports abortions and helps his impregnated partner/friend in any way possible...
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Fundamentally, I say you should be in charge of your own body. If one wants do blast 3 keys of coke into their veins... Know what you're getting into but it's your choice. If someone wants a tattoo of a potato plastered on their forehead... their choice. If someone wants to give away their organs once they're dead... Go for it.
Anyway, you only get human rights after you're born, so...
Here's one reason why... Every single day there are trillions of potential babies being killed...
Seriously... Every teenage guy kills about 300 million potential babies quite a few times a week.
Personally, I think birth control can be in the form of an 'abortion' (ex: morning after pill) or any other safe type anti-pregnant-becoming measures.
____
#2: "Irresponsible women get abortions"... I think, in many circumstances, it would be irresponsible *not* to get an abortion. Ex: Take a teenager exchanging bodily fluids at someone's birthday party and getting pregnant. Not getting an abortion would most probably force them out of school, make them desperate for money, etc...
Also "because we're not promiscuous sluts" -> just because one sleeps with people doesn't categorize someone as a slut. It's rude to call someone a slut. Actually, frequent sex is healthy and encouraged.
And your last paragraph... I'm a male and support abortions. I wouldn't blame a woman if she got pregnant (because everybody knows, it takes two to tango). They're some who would, but they're also sensible, rational people too. Then again... Abortions cost money and guys are never in need of abortions... So I would support a guy who supports abortions and helps his impregnated partner/friend in any way possible...
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Fundamentally, I say you should be in charge of your own body. If one wants do blast 3 keys of coke into their veins... Know what you're getting into but it's your choice. If someone wants a tattoo of a potato plastered on their forehead... their choice. If someone wants to give away their organs once they're dead... Go for it.
Anyway, you only get human rights after you're born, so...
Applying your reasoning, abstaining from sex is also murder because you're preventing a human from coming into existence.
When crossing the road, you don't expect to be hit by a car (especially if you take precautions like looking before you cross), and if you ARE hit by a car, nobody stands around saying "well... it's your fault, you WERE crossing the road after all".
I'd also like to point out that the definition of murder is:
n. The unlawful and premeditated killing of another human being.
Abortion does not fit this definition.
Don't be stupid.
When crossing the road, you don't expect to be hit by a car (especially if you take precautions like looking before you cross), and if you ARE hit by a car, nobody stands around saying "well... it's your fault, you WERE crossing the road after all".
I'd also like to point out that the definition of murder is:
n. The unlawful and premeditated killing of another human being.
Abortion does not fit this definition.
Don't be stupid.
You cannot apply that reasoning to abstinence. You're the one being stupid. Life begins at conception. Masturbation could be likened to murder along my line of reasoning, albeit at a different angle than pregnancy, but not abstinence. By the way #15 are you a woman or a man? Curious only to see who's point of view you're looking at this from. By the level of your ardor I'm leaning towards woman.
In the end when it comes down to it, this is the same problem one usually finds when arguing the merits of homosexuality. You got your pro-choice, and pro-birth (or whatever they call it), but my point is that the arguments ultimately escalate because whoever is defending it simply demands that everyone else accept their point of view, and ultimately get ultra-defensive and start attacking people. Then things just devolve into a mud-slinging environment of ridiculousness that gets nothing done.
Back to the topic at hand the age old problem is the definition of a human being. Sadly this will never be fully explained or settled on because someone will always argue it. Your argument about being stuck with financial difficulties is irrelevant. It may happen, but there will always be someone willing to help. When that kid grows up, if they make something of themselves then the dividends will grow tenfold. If not? Who knows, they go have a few kids themselves and one of those little shimmies grows up and does something good in the world.
The best way to do things is just keep one's (guy or girl) legs closed until marriage, and plan your children.
Nothing in this world is free. If the parent's have any sense of responsibility they can and will step up and take of that child. Poor parenting is the problem, but to try and fix it by starting at the end result, is like putting the horse before the cart.
I don't know. Simply discussing. If you can use a tone that, despite your very passionate stance on the matter (few people are passionate about anything these days so bravo btw ;) ), is reasonable and open-minded that would be awesome.
FYI I totally refreshed the page and it kept my text xD. Awwwesome!!! No copy and paste for this shimmy! Oonce oonce oonce. Shimmy shimmy wat wat. Wooot dere it is! Wooot dere it is! Other forums totally make me hit the V.
In the end when it comes down to it, this is the same problem one usually finds when arguing the merits of homosexuality. You got your pro-choice, and pro-birth (or whatever they call it), but my point is that the arguments ultimately escalate because whoever is defending it simply demands that everyone else accept their point of view, and ultimately get ultra-defensive and start attacking people. Then things just devolve into a mud-slinging environment of ridiculousness that gets nothing done.
Back to the topic at hand the age old problem is the definition of a human being. Sadly this will never be fully explained or settled on because someone will always argue it. Your argument about being stuck with financial difficulties is irrelevant. It may happen, but there will always be someone willing to help. When that kid grows up, if they make something of themselves then the dividends will grow tenfold. If not? Who knows, they go have a few kids themselves and one of those little shimmies grows up and does something good in the world.
The best way to do things is just keep one's (guy or girl) legs closed until marriage, and plan your children.
Nothing in this world is free. If the parent's have any sense of responsibility they can and will step up and take of that child. Poor parenting is the problem, but to try and fix it by starting at the end result, is like putting the horse before the cart.
I don't know. Simply discussing. If you can use a tone that, despite your very passionate stance on the matter (few people are passionate about anything these days so bravo btw ;) ), is reasonable and open-minded that would be awesome.
FYI I totally refreshed the page and it kept my text xD. Awwwesome!!! No copy and paste for this shimmy! Oonce oonce oonce. Shimmy shimmy wat wat. Wooot dere it is! Wooot dere it is! Other forums totally make me hit the V.
I will totally admit I am kind of all over in the #16. Sorry ahead of time.
#16:
"The best way to do things is just keep one's (guy or girl) legs closed until marriage, and plan your children." << Good luck with that. That POV is becoming less and less popular. Average age of losing virginity is 16.9 (Google Instant Answers).
Planning for children, however, is good and I would agree that it's MUCH better to plan for a child rather than "let's just let stuff happen".
Also, parenting can only do so much. I would, were I a parent, educate my child(ren) about sex and what not, encourage them to ask questions and learn about what's what, etc... and teach them about safe sex & pregnancies and its beauties and horrors.
Parents these days can't control much [about this] seeing how if a conservative parent holds back info, the kid will learn from the internet (namely porn sites -> not a good educational tool) and their friends.
Your last paragraph, #16, ha, made me laugh xD Hate it when it deletes all my text when I refresh -.-
"The best way to do things is just keep one's (guy or girl) legs closed until marriage, and plan your children." << Good luck with that. That POV is becoming less and less popular. Average age of losing virginity is 16.9 (Google Instant Answers).
Planning for children, however, is good and I would agree that it's MUCH better to plan for a child rather than "let's just let stuff happen".
Also, parenting can only do so much. I would, were I a parent, educate my child(ren) about sex and what not, encourage them to ask questions and learn about what's what, etc... and teach them about safe sex & pregnancies and its beauties and horrors.
Parents these days can't control much [about this] seeing how if a conservative parent holds back info, the kid will learn from the internet (namely porn sites -> not a good educational tool) and their friends.
Your last paragraph, #16, ha, made me laugh xD Hate it when it deletes all my text when I refresh -.-
All this malarkey aside, but #3 is just pure, unadulterated BS. -.-
Would I, the OP, classify abortion as 'murder'? Yeah sure, whatever. That makes no difference that I still support it. Semantics never make for a good argument.
Would I, the OP, classify abortion as 'murder'? Yeah sure, whatever. That makes no difference that I still support it. Semantics never make for a good argument.
I can't believe people like Lauren-T actually exist. Someone who see's the world as so black and white that they can detest, hate and completely catagorize a whole bunch of people without any empathy or understanding for their situation.
I would agree with her on the subject of late terminations, and partially would agree that people who are irresponsible (and men that think it is purely the womans job not to get pregnant) are contemptable.
However in the situation that a condom breaks, or an accident occurs sometimes an abortion would be the correct choice for everybody involved.
Certain questions should be addressed, the irresponsibility of bringing a child into the world without the means to support it. Condemning a woman to have a child with a man she perhaps does not wish to be with or condemning a man to pick up the cost of an unwanted child.
Surely morality is about following the path that causes the least suffering. The path that tries to balance the rights of all involved. In the case of early pregnance the parents rights and the potential harm a child faces being born into the world without loving parents or the financial means to raise it.
No case is black and white, spewing vitrole at either side of the debate just shows ignorance.
I would agree with her on the subject of late terminations, and partially would agree that people who are irresponsible (and men that think it is purely the womans job not to get pregnant) are contemptable.
However in the situation that a condom breaks, or an accident occurs sometimes an abortion would be the correct choice for everybody involved.
Certain questions should be addressed, the irresponsibility of bringing a child into the world without the means to support it. Condemning a woman to have a child with a man she perhaps does not wish to be with or condemning a man to pick up the cost of an unwanted child.
Surely morality is about following the path that causes the least suffering. The path that tries to balance the rights of all involved. In the case of early pregnance the parents rights and the potential harm a child faces being born into the world without loving parents or the financial means to raise it.
No case is black and white, spewing vitrole at either side of the debate just shows ignorance.
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